The Mind Robbers Ep. 17 – Hate-Watching

This week, Scott has seen Dark Shadows while Matt has been reading comics, both rave about the new show from Amy Sherman-Palladino called Bunheads, review the film Drones, revisit Alien before seeing Prometheus this weekend, and continue our ongoing chat about Supernatural (episodes 13-15 of season two).

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Next: Season Finale Talk!


44 thoughts on “The Mind Robbers Ep. 17 – Hate-Watching

  1. I’m at the hour and 23 minute mark but I just wanted to say I love when you guys do super long podcasts. I mean if I’m going to surf the internet for 3 hours straight anyway or fold my laundry or something I might as well have you guys in the background giggling about James Van Der Beek 🙂 Keep up the talking!

    • Thanks Tiffany! I’m glad you like the long episodes, but I’m not sure that we could stop making them even if you didn’t. I’m pretty sure it would backfire and end up being 4 hours every week. Thanks again for listening, you’re an awesome lady!

      • Aww you guys are nice! Just for that I’m going to keep listening to your shows! Also just wanted to add that Jonathan Woodward not being on Dollhouse (and inevitably killed by Echo for some reason) is one of the biggest tragedies of that show only lasting 26 episodes. 🙁 Sigh.

  2. Wow! What a great podcast! Loved all the discussion. Made me wanna watch and read some things that I hadn’t yet. So thanks for that. Also, regarding what’s next after “Supernatural,” I have no clue. My mind has been blown. Thanks, guys.

    As for “Fringe,” I have been watching that show for a few years now. And I don’t blame you for not doing it on the podcast. I haven’t really been a fan of where they took the show this year. Was hoping it would all add to something and never did. So sad.

    • That’s actually the exact reason we are not going to be watching it on the show. This season just sounds like a betrayal to fans that have spent the past few years caring for these characters. Seems like a weird choice that Matt and I weren’t interested in watching.

      I’m really glad you’re listening, Tim. Thanks!

      • Exactly! It started out very interesting but then as the season panned out, it was very uninteresting. Very shameful. Anyway, keep up the great work! I love it!

        • Also, I am really looking forward to the pilot analysis in the coming weeks. Is there anyway you could tell us what pilots you will be doing in advance so we could watch them before the podcast hits? 🙂

          • Yeah. We’ll be announcing them a week out like we do with most things saying “next week we’re talking pilots again and it’ll be this one and this one.” So don’t worry. You’ll have advanced warning for playing along at home.

      • I gotta disagree with you guys on Fringe. I know what you’re talking about with the whole “betrayal” and it’s actually more complicated then that. SPOILERS FOR FRINGE!!!!!

        We were meant to believe that Peter was in an alternate reality this season created from a timeline he was erased from and that does seem to be the case with his original timeline having been erased but as time has gone by we’ve got to see this timeline he’s in now become his new home and one of the characters regain memories of the previous timeline suggesting that they have merged. It does seem complicated but if you guys were able to go on caring about Amy Pond post “The Girl Who Waited” if you let yourselves get into Fringe I doubt you’d have the problem getting into Fringe because these are still essentially the same people and seeing Olivia and Peter finally get together and Walter and Peter repair their relationship in this new timeline is worth seeing. There’s also the fact that it’s still unclear if this is a whole new timeline or just the same timeline with all memory of Peter erased and then you wonder if it even matters in the end. They give evidence for both. I’m a fan and I did not feel betrayed at all with what we got. I thought this season was great. Also as to it not adding to anything? What are you talking about? We got explanations for why it happened (people having been born in one timeline that were so detrimental to it they had to be erased and other people needing to exist in the new timeline) as well as the beginning of the end of the world battle and the two timelines finally reaching a level of understanding they never could have in the previous timeline so that we could stop seeing them as villains, having that “us vs. them” mentality and letting us finally care what happened to them. There were also a lot of questions created about identity with the alternate versions “why did this version of me turn out this way when almost everything about our upbringing was similar except for this one tiny thing?” I’m sorry but this season was great and I couldn’t be more excited about season 5.

        • Tiffany, I get what you’re saying, about the new timeline and such. But by the end of the season, I was just very muddled about the storyline. It almost seemed like what had transpired didn’t matter in the previous years. Interviews with the producers seemed to indicate that wasn’t the case, but I just kept getting confused as to where it added up. It almost seemed like a retcon in some respects. But that’s just me. I will most likely be watching the new season after it is over because I’ve watched it this long but not because I’m into the characters anymore. Peter was the most developed IMO. Glad someone liked it though. I just didn’t.

          • It’s okay if you didn’t like it I just can’t stand the idea of people dismissing it sight unseen. Yes you have to watch the entire season for the payoff but isn’t that the case with most TV shows. Fringe forces you to deal with a lot of complicated ideas but for me it’s always paid off and honestly if Scott and Matt write off this whole show based on one revelation they could potentially really like (because fans exist who had no issues with this storyline) they’d be doing themselves a disservice.

          • One of my problems with Fringe from the get go was that it took waaaaaaaay too long to get going. Naturally, a TV show takes a while to get its steam rolling but it took almost 1.5 seasons to get going. Then it finally got its steam and really never let up til about the end of season 3 and then I felt season 4 had its moments but overall wasn’t very satisfying. And the fact that the producers of Fringe were bad mouthing LOST (one of my favorite TV shows of all time) left a bad taste in my mouth. But, Tiffany, I’m glad you liked it. That is cool. Like I did with Smallville, I’ll stay tuned to the end.

          • Hey, Tiffany. Sorry if I came off as flippant and dismissive on the podcast but Fringe is a show I’ve been waffling about since before it even first aired. So I’m coming at it with a lot of history that I’ve been grappling with for quite a long time and my dismissiveness is really just exasperation at all of the things.

            But really I have two crucial reasons why Fringe is a show I have decided not to watch, or at least, to not make a priority.

            The first is because I hate the pilot. I watched it when it first premiered at Comic-Con with a room full of fans for whom the show is for. It wasn’t the show I wanted it to be (it’s framed initially as a sci-fi procedural) and having watched it several times since to get back into it I’ve found it to be terribly boring and generic. I did watch a few episodes after that, but I didn’t really care about the characters or the initial X-Filesy premise, so I dropped off. The notion now of needing to sit through twenty hours of that for the first season (and if I were to watch it, I’d want to watch all of it because that’s the fair thing to do) in order to get to the second when it picks up sounds nothing short of tedious and awful for me. Quite frankly, I think my time would be better spent watching a season of television I actually enjoy rather than slogging through a season that’s “work.”

            But the other big reason I’m not going to watch it is because from what I understand the show has completely tossed aside its characters in favor of new ones as some sort of intellectual exercise. It seems backwards to me that you’d create a batch (hell, two batches) of characters and build them up for three seasons and then throw them away in the fourth season, replacing them with alternate, amalgam characters of the people you knew. Yes, the actors are still there, and yes they’re playing versions of the characters we know and love, but they’re not the characters WE know. It’s a fine thing to do for an episode or two. But keeping those characters as status quo is problematic to me because it makes for an entirely different show that just isn’t the same. Sure, the premise and mythology is still there, but they still basically reset and rebooted the characters, which is (in one way or another) something of an admission that they’ve run out of interesting things to say about Olivia and Faux-livia.

            So those are the two big reasons why. It hurts that I don’t want to because seasons two and three were heralded as the best sci-fi on television (and I loves me some sci-fi) but the buzz on Fringe has grown noticeably cult, even for the show. It used to be talked up and down as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now it has a noticeably-smaller-yet-still-plenty-vocal fanbase keeping the flame alive, but the volume is noticeably less which tells me that the spark has left for a number of people.

            So watching five seasons of a show in which an entire season is something I’m not interested in and another is an intellectual exercise that seems to betray the previous seasons doesn’t… It just turns me off.

            Again, sorry for the dismissiveness. I’m extremely glad you like the show and that it’s pushing your buttons and I’m absolutely delighted that a show like Fringe is on network television and it’s wonderful that it has survived this long with all the crazy and bendy directions they’ve gone.

            Regardless of my feelings, it is a show to be applauded. And so I do. Just not with my eyeballs.

        • I meant to say “universes” the two dueling universes finally reached an understanding. Really though at the end we got a “You’ve been home all along.” revelation but even without that I never saw the ending as a waste of time. We were already expected to care about alternate versions of these characters when we were introduced to the concept of a red and blue universe so when the amber world was introduced even when I thought it was a whole new world I was still able to care.

      • Matt that’s totally understandable and you’ve clearly put a lot of thought into why you’re not going to watch. I can’t even defend the did they or did they not dump the characters thing because they still haven’t been totally clear on that and I watched the whole damn season XD So hopefully the commentaries will explain that for me anyway I’m not going to plead with you guys to give the show a chance anymore. You’ve made up your minds and I can respect that. Hell I have the same issue with friends who want me to watch Game of Thrones (I’m sure it’s a great show I just have zero interest) You know how it is though when you love a show you want everyone else to love it too and what can I say I admire the ambition of it all and the willingness to take that kind of risk to tell the story you want to tell (I think that’s why I like season 3 of Community the best too) but again you guys aren’t interested and that’s totally fine.

        • Thank you so much for being understanding and not being judgy about our decision to skip Fringe. It was one that we wrestled with for a while and I think the biggest factor in deciding not to do it is not only the fact that we wouldn’t be enjoying ourselves (we already know we’re not crazy about the show, both of us have tried and failed to watch it on 3 separate occasions), but also because we didn’t think Fringe fans would enjoy listening to us tear down a show they love for most of that first season. It just wouldn’t be fair to anyone involved.

          So thanks for understanding, and thanks for continuing to listen!

  3. Hey guys,
    Great episode. I look forward to your Supernatural talk every episode and I definitely agree at that point of the show Tall Tales was the best episode! I was wondering maybe along with the Supernatural talk if when you guys talk about the episode maybe each one of you tell your favorite scene or favorite line from the episode. Anyway I also will take a stab at the next show you are going to do. Is it Star Trek??

    • Hey David! The idea of talking about our favorite scene/favorite line is a pretty good idea. I think we might try it next week!

      And Star Trek is an EXCELLENT guess. But no.

      Thanks for listening!

  4. Didn’t Barnabus bite Victoria and turn her into a vampire or whatever as they were falling off the cliff? Not that I’m defending that movie. It was a total mess (although I found it kind of bizarrely fascinating). But I feel like that happened.

    • I didn’t see Barnabus bite Victoria. It looked like he just chase-fell after her because she definitely landed before he did. Maybe I missed something? I’m not sure.

      • Yeah, synopsis sites (Wikipedia, The Movie Spoiler) mention him biting her as they fell. But even so, that still doesn’t excuse/explain the mom spirit that comes out of nowhere to save the day. Or what kind of fucked-up life designs the ghost of Josette had on Victoria. Or how Michelle Pfeiffer never noticed that Chloe Moretz has been a werewolf since infancy. Or what the supernatural rules are in this world. (You can curse someone into becoming a vampire, but biting them also works?) Or how the son is supposed to be so messed up that the family has a live-in psychologist to deal with him, except he seems pretty much okay. Or how Eva Green’s body is apparently made of porcelain but doesn’t break when Johnny Depp is vamp-banging her all over the ceiling. Or how Depp is apparently illiterate for three seconds of the movie for the purpose of a bad joke (“Mephistopheles!”). Or everything else that’s insanely sloppy about this movie.

        Anyway, on a more positive note, I love your live movie tweets, but I didn’t realize you had a podcast until this morning. I’m excited to go through and listen to the backlog. Keep up the good work, guys!

  5. The only show I can think of is Babylon 5. And if it’s that than you are braver men than I am Mr. Carelli and Mr. Smith, *shakes head*

    Unless it’s Planet of the Apes, which, FUCK YEAH!

    • You should know better than to guess Babylon 5. You know how much I hate that show and JMS. I have consistently talked about that on all of my shows for YEARS. It is definitely NOT B5 😛

  6. I have a comment . . . I really want to tune in and listen to you guys’ finale discussion to hear what you have to say on certain finales but others I don;t want to be spoiled on (Breaking Bad). Is there any chance you could put a time stamp as to which finales are when in the episode? If not, that’s cool. I just don’t want to be spoiled on anything regarding Breaking Bad.

    • We will not be discussing Breaking Bad as one of the finale talk shows next week. The next time we discuss the show in a meaningful or in-depth way will be when season five premieres next month.

  7. I think Matt mentioned the Girls finale not being next week because there are 2 episodes left so I already know you you won’t be talking about it but I really hope you guys could devote some time to talking about the show in the future. Girls is one of my favorite new shows of the year and I think the reaction towards it has been pretty fascinating if at times deeply disturbing particularly if you read the AV club comments for it which only now in week 8 have become slightly tolerable. Then again I haven’t looked at the since yesterday. The backlash to this show has been insane and I think you guys could have an interesting discussion on why that is the case whether it’s a reaction to Lena Dunham’s youth, the mostly white cast (which…come on…2 episodes had aired when this became an issue, not great but give them time to work on it) or (gag) sexism which I can’t help but feel must have something to due with it. Somehow I think if this show was Boys starring Lawrence Dunham it would have been under such a heightened level of scrutiny. Honestly though it would be nice to hear a podcast discussion that actually discusses the show since I don’t think any exist right now.

    • Yeah. No Girls this week cuz of what you said, but I’m telling you right now: in the episode after next? I’m going to be talking about it because of all the things you said and because I simply can’t get enough of the show. As I’m sure Scott is sick of hearing right now (because he’s behind), at least once per episode I end up texting him how much I loooooooooooooooove it.

      Cuz I do.

      • I’m catching up on Girls next week so I can be ready to discuss it a couple week from now. I really enjoy it, too, and I’m SURE that a big part of our Girls discussion will be why it’s been so hated and why we think that is ridiculous.

  8. I get the hate watching. We snuck liquor int Dark Shadows and I still spent most of the movie apologizing to my friend and laughing at the redic of it. Funny thing is? You can make a good Dark Shadows movie. Hell! They made two of them! Ugh.

    Pilot Suggestions:
    Buffy, Freaks and Geeks, Lost (one of the best pilots in my opinion), Dark Shadows: Revival, and I haven’t seen it since it aired but I remember the Dharma and Greg pilot (I know, right?) was a fantastic little movie. I’ll let you know if I think of anymore. 😛

    • Great suggestions for pilots. Hadn’t considered the Dharma and Greg pilot, but I suppose we could throw that on the list. Maybe couple it with Will and Grace because 1) why not? and 2) because I am not a fan of Chuck Lorre and love taking him down by comparisons.

      • Oh that’s right, it was a Chuck Lorre show. *Feels a little dirty* Like I said I remember when it aired loving the pilot but never liking any other episode of that show but my memory could be faulty and also, at the time? I was, like, 15.

        Looking at other pilots to older sitcoms would be great too. Rosanne and M*A*S*H’s pilots would be good to look at, as well as Friends and I remember That 70’s Show pilot being “edgy” (they smoked pot! On network TV!)

        Oh! And don’t forget the Quantum Leap pilot! It was like a little movie back in the day!

        • Quantum Leap is definitely on the list. There was no way we weren’t going to talk about that one. We’ll probably team that pilot up with the Sliders pilot because they’re similar-ish.

          • Oh I love Quantum Leap! I haven’t seen the first episode for years though and Netflix wasn’t streaming the first three episodes for some reason. I have recently upgraded my Netflix account to include dvd’s again so I guess there’s nothing stopping me from watching it now.
            Potential pilots: Dead Like Me, Veronica Mars, How I Met Your Mother, Happy Endings, Archer, Angel, Community, Dollhouse, Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles.

  9. Hey guys,
    I notice you have another Tim commenting above, which is confusing, but I am the Australian one. Will have to change my comments name or something. Maybe next time.

    Anyway, on show lengths – never too long in my opinion. If you have stuff to talk about, and it is interesting or amusing, talk away. The two of you bounce of each other so well that I never notice two hours has passed. I always skip the Supernatural recaps anyway, as I have just (finally!) started watching it myself, but am a season behind. So far so good – it seems a very high quality show.

    Don’t Trust the Bitch cracks me up. I never gave James Van Der Beek much notice as an actor, but he absolutely nails playing himself, albeit a fictional version. He is the best part of the show.

    As for a pilot suggestion, you might not be old enough, but the Blake’s 7 pilot is one of the most compelling pilots I have ever seen, and totally holds up 35 years later.

    I still love Fringe. The acting and individual episodes still hold up, even if some of the overarching themes seem a bit confusing now.

    • Oooh! Blake’s 7. I’ve been meaning to watch that show for a while but never had the excuse. But if it’s a pilot and truly as good as you say it is, then I will add it to the list.

      Technically, we could also talk “An Unearthly Child” or “Rose” from Doctor Who, but I’m not sure that’d fly.

      • Blake’s 7 reinvented television Sci-Fi in the same way that the new BSG did. Ethically dubious heroes (in this case a bunch of criminals), on the run from a totalitarian society before beginning the fight back. It suffers the same budgetary issues that ’70’s Doctor Who did, but the plots and most of the acting is excellent.
        The pilot is one of my favourite episodes from the show. It is hard to believe that it only followed Star Wars by a year.
        The final episode is extremely controversial and brave, but makes perfect logical sense to the story and is one of the most satisfying conclusions I have ever seen to four episodes of TV.

        • Yeah, see all these things are reasons I want to watch it. The madness of Terry Nation but tempered by the script editing of Chris Boucher (who wrote “Robots of Death” and “Image of the Fendahl”) AND with the bonus of having several episodes written by Robert Holmes? Bring it on.

      • Forgot to mention that Blake’s 7 was invented by Terry Nation, who I think also wrote the entire first season.

  10. Blake’s 7 is a pilot I totally want to watch. I am told that Blake’s 7 is something as a series that influenced shows like Firefly and Farscape, both of which are shows that I love. Only question is . . . Where can you find said pilot?

    -Tim from America

    • All four seasons have been out on DVD for several years – not sure about the USA.

  11. Okay I just got done rewatching the Pushing Daisies pilot and I have to add it as a suggestion for a potential pilot you two could discuss. It’s freaking magical, the characters are adorable and the colors! My god the colors!

    • Pushing Daisies is a genius show with a genius pilot. It (and Dead Like Me and Wonderfalls) are definitely on the list and probably as a Bryan Fuller three-fer.

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